Despite the fact that it seems like the writers have been told that the only way the show can maintain its legally protected status of "Star Trek parody" is to drop the word "dick" into every episode, I have been very impressed with The Orville so far. So much so, that I am starting this discussion thread. There will be spoilers. You have been warned.
17 comments :
I think my favourite episode so far is "Majority Rule". Interested to see what people think of the idea of a culture that doesn't distinguish truth from popular opinion.
Also quite like the idea of the Krill, a species that believes their god has given them complete dominion over the universe, and thus they have the divine right to subjugate or eliminate all other lifeforms.
And then there's the Mocklins.
One thing I'm drawn to is an exploration of the idea that -- while it may be possible to understand a foreign culture on an intellectual level -- differences between those cultures can still render them completely incompatible. It reminds me that when I was younger, I was a big believer in the idea of multiculturalism -- but most of that has gone out the window as I've gotten older. At this point, I'm more inclined to believe that throwing together people with completely different values and ideas about how society should be structured, is little more than a recipe for resentment and civil conflict.
My hunch is that the alliance between Earth and Mocklus is supposed to draw parallels between the US relationship with Saudi Arabia, but I'm open to other interpretations on that.
I liked the 'Majority Rule' episode too - soooo realistic. I also like the dig at religion, inherent in the Krill's world view. I think aspects of this show are much cleverer than actual Star Trek. The flaws for me would be 1. The extreme goofiness (but like you say, in keeping with their efforts to maintain a semblance of parody) 2. The fact that it's set in 2400-something yet they keep referring to things in our century 3. The set is a bit too squeaky clean like it's a backdrop for a commercial
The Earth/Mocklus thing was interesting. I don't think it means multiculturalism doesn't work though! I think, if anything, it shows that the democratic process (in this case, a jury) doesn't work as well as it should. This idea is also explored in 'Majority Rule'. The classic parallel in real life is the fact that Trump was voted president and, here in the UK, that people voted to leave the economic union which is the only thing keeping their economy slightly afloat... Sadly, democracy is only as smart as its voters
Adding to your list of flaws:
1) No matter how many imperfections or idiosyncrasies a character has, everybody is a genius at their job. Maybe it's realistic that you would have to be that good to be on the command team of a spaceship, but it does start to get a bit eye-rolly after a while.
2) I've watched nearly two full seasons now, and I still can't remember any of the human characters names. To me, they're just Captain, Ex-wife, Doc, Ranga, and Blackfella.
4) Every time Ex-wife is on screen, I can't stop looking at that mole that's right between her eyes.
3) I don't know why, but the new Xelayan character they introduced in season 2 gives me the shits. Everything about her is annoying. EVERYTHING! I was hoping they were going to build some drama and escalate the stakes by killing her off during the Kaylon episodes. I won't say at this point whether they actually did that or not -- but I was hoping for it.
Back to Mocklus; I'd like to continue this conversation with you once you're completely caught up -- there are more Mocklan-focused episodes to come -- but I think it's different to what's in Majority Rule. The reason the Mocklan jury weren't swayed when their greatest philosopher was revealed to be a woman, was that anti-female sentiments go to the very core of their culture. Bortus came around to the Earth way of thinking, but as you will see, he's actually pretty atypically open-minded for a Mocklan.
One of the things I found interesting was that Bortus' mate Klydin did not change his mind, despite the fact that he himself was born female. It reminded me of how, in some cultures, women -- who have themselves been mutilated -- are the staunchest advocates of FGM.
Also, do you have any predictions on where they're going to go with the Krill? My guess is that the writers want to reform them, but how do you do that with a bunch of religious zealots?
I don't know. To me, the Krill represent humanity because they believe they take absolute precedence over all other living creatures. I don't think the Krill will change. Can't have too much peace and harmony - it's bad for plot lines
Just watched latest episode and it's Krill focused. I'm going to be interested to see what you think once you've caught up.
How far along are you? Like I said, I'll have to delete some old episodes in order to upload newer ones.
Oh, it also had a long drawn-out comedy sequence which got very tired very quickly, and didn't at all fit with the rest of the episode.
Apart from that, it was pretty decent.
Just wanted to say I can't stand the new Xelayan character either - that side pony tail is so ridic
(posted this in wrong thread/deleted it)
I can't put my finger on it, Squib, but there's more than just the pony tail that bothers me.
Yes, something not right. Also, why did they get rid of one of the best characters
So I've now watched up to the end of Identity Part II. Call me sentimental but I loved the romance in 'A Happy refrain'...
Well then, you've only got one episode to go, and it's a Krill episode at that.
Rom-coms and soap-operas have almost made romance a dirty word, but it's a fantastic story element when done right. And it still boggles my mind how in this so-called "comedy", the funny stuff is the only element they can't get right.
The most interesting part of that episode for me, was the exploration of reflected emotion. Since you don't know how close Isaac can come to something approximating human emotions, you don't know how much of what's going on is just the Doc projecting her feelings onto him and then reading back signals that aren't really there. A tricky thing to get right in a goofy comedy series.
What did you think of what they did with the Kaylons? I thought the build up was really good, but the resolution only felt … adequate.
Oh, and what about what they did in "Deflectors", with the hetero Mocklin? I really liked that one. Up there with the best, I reckon.
Also, I looked up some fan forums to see if Alara was coming back. There were two popular theories:
1) She needed time off because she's going to be in a movie.
2) She's sleeping with the captain (whatsisface, the Family Guy bloke), who is also the head honcho on the show, and the network felt it wasn't a good look, what with the whole "Me-Too" thing going on.
No idea if there's any truth to any of it.
Hey Squib, if you thought "A Happy Refrain" tugged at the heartstrings, wait until you see the last episode of the season.
You know, I saw absolutely every story beat coming a mile off, and it still got to me.
Also, the comedic B-plot is … adequate.
So I just watched episode 11 last night. The whole schmaltzy 'girl next door' iphone episode and the thing that struck me, REALLY struck me because it was like it didn't even register and wasn't addressed is this. Lt.Gordon is sleeping with a virtual girl from the past but like she didn't ask for that? I mean that's like finding an old black&white pic in a museum and having a wank all over it - except it's much, much worse because she wanted to be 'found' and 'remembered' and instead she just became the object of Gordon's lust... it's so creepy and weird that her lack of consent in this scenario wasn't even explored
I find your take on that episode fascinating, Squib, since your perspective is apparently completely different from mine. I'd be genuinely interested in hearing how you would have liked to see that aspect of the story explored. I don't even feel like I can fully get my head around what you mean. But then, it might just be that I have fundamentally different ideas about consent in regard to intellectual property.
I've written before, and probably will again (in the near future) on how I feel about intellectual property (I'm mostly against it). I don't have any problem with someone wanking over a photo from a museum (so long as they don't destroy the original), and I don't think they morally require anyone's permission to do so. If somebody out there has photos of me, I don't think it's any business of mine whether they wank over them or not. The trouble for me starts when people begin sharing that sort of stuff around, particularly at mass scale. But even that goes out the window once I'm dead. This might be the old nihilist in me coming out again, but I honestly don't even care if my mortician is one of those creepy cunts who fucks my corpse after I'm dead. Once I'm dead, nothing can harm me, so my feelings are irrelevant. (of course, my family might care, but that's a different matter)
The other obvious route you can take with this is sort of an episode - if you create a computer simulation, or artificial life form that can mimic a human in every way, at what point does it start to have rights? Along with the Skynet apocalypse scenario, this is probably the best argument against developing highly advanced artificial intelligence—you're basically just building a race of slaves. I guess the Orville kind of touched on that with the Kalons, but it wasn't much more than a surface poke.
By the way, what did you think of the last two eps? I liked the one with the female Mocklans up until the big fight scene. Playing that for laughs completely sucked all the tension and drama out of the episode. And I applaud the last episode for doing something interesting with time-travel—a subject which I often find tedious when it comes to fiction.
Haven't seen the last two episodes yet. I get what you mean re: wanking in general but this episode is supposedly about the historical legacy this woman leaves behind. Like when she put her phone in the time capsule, I'm pretty sure it wasn't so some future dude could have virtual sex with her. So instead of this being about who she was and her historically lived life, it's about how hot she was. It's demeaning. It's also totally unprofessional to take a historical artifact and turn it into a sex toy
Leaving all that aside, she was a walking cliche and the episode was pathetic
I think you're being a bit tough on old Lt Ranga. I don't think he built the simulation just so he could pull a root. I think he was genuinely curious about who the woman was, and then once he got involved, human nature took over.
And it's not like the data on the phone got used up when he made his simulation. He copied it. Potentially, that data could have been copied thousands of times by historians and non-historians alike. It could have been put in a museum AND used as a sex toy AND put on the side of cornflakes packets AND used for all manner of different things—scientific, commercial, exploitative, mundane, you name it.
Now that I think about it, I suppose it might've been nice to see an episode exploring the idea of legacy and the fact that we can't control what people do with our works once we die. As it was, I agree that everything about the episode was cliche … but it still suckered me in on an emotional level.
Actually the second he clapped eyes on her pic, he was drooling
I know he copied it. Doesn't make it any less professional. I mean come on, how old is he. He acts like a teenager
Everybody on that show behaves like a teenager. My biggest criticism since the beginning has been the juvenile and tension-destroying humour. Unfortunately, I don't think they can jettison it without running the risk of being sued.
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