I've just finished watching it, and—wow—what can I say. It's a hard show to praise. I don't mean that it's not worthy of praise; I mean, it's difficult to describe it accurately while still doing it justice. It wasn't really a work of art; the plot was simple and straightforward, there were no real twists or turns, there was no real mystery—I mean, there weren't any expositional dumps, so it took a while to fully comprehend some stuff—but for the most part, everything was presented at face value; the characters were uncomplicated and there were no "stand out" performances from the cast; there weren't any sequences or lines of dialogue or plot elements that you could say were exceptional; there was no tricky camera work or artsy-fartsy shit, and the music was minimalist and unobtrusive. No, this wasn't a work of art; this was a workshop in master craftsmanship. Everything was exactly what it needed to be in order to best tell the story and nothing more. I dunno how I'm doing at explaining myself, but consider this: I can't point to one single aspect of the show that I loved, and yet, I've been glued to the telly for pretty much the last eight hours straight, unable to look away. My emotional involvement so high that at least half a dozen times there were scenes—maybe as simple as two characters sitting quietly in a room, and one turning to the other and saying something as innocuous as "I believe you"—and suddenly I found myself with tears running down my face. I don't think I can explain it any better than that.
Warning: This next bit ISN'T going to contain any plot spoilers, but I'll black it out anyway, just in case you'd rather not know anything at all. Click on the blacked-out text if you want to read it.
The story takes place in a sleepy town in rural America, and revolves around a cop (single) and two families that each have one young child and one teenage child. There are three (semi)distinct layers, with each layer having a mundane aspect and a "weird" aspect.
Layer 1, Mundane: Young boys with their heads half in the real world and half in the fantasy world of comic books and role-playing-games. There's a big, serious adventure to be had here, complete with school-bullies, bike-chases, friendships being tested, and they might even discover a little bit of romance along the way. Layer 1, Weird: One of the group disappears and then a mysterious, nearly mute girl shows up out of nowhere. Can she help them find their friend, and what other secrets is she hiding?
Layer 2, Mundane: Teenagers, parties, peer-pressure, sex, virginity, lies, and social stigma. Layer 2, Weird: Some sort of malevolent force/monster (which may or may not exist in the physical world) is abducting people. Can our heroes find a way to stop it before it gets them?
Layer 3, Mundane: Parents trying to protect their kids while grieving for the ones they've lost. Layer 3, Weird: A clandestine government agency appears to be hunting both the monster and the little mute girl; and it seems they'll stop at nothing to get what they want—even murder.
To start with, the mundane and the weird are mostly separate. Over the course of the series, the two gradually come together, and then the three layers flatten out into a single story. It's quite expertly done, considering there's some wildly different tonal elements at play.
If you're the sort of person who absolutely hates the idea of a supernatural thriller with overtones of government conspiracy, then MAYBE you should give this a miss, but for everyone else—WATCH IT!
WARNING: The following are points of discussion for people who have watched the show. DON'T click on this box until after you've seen it.
Personally, I think the story should end where it ended. Would you like to see it continued with a second season?
The biggest criticism I've heard of the show is that Winona Ryder over-plays her part. I thought she was just right. What did you think?
Did anyone else think they should have made more of an effort to keep the monster "hidden"; like, in shadows or something. I kinda reckon it looked a bit wanky at the end.
Did Eleven remind anyone else of young Natalie Portman from Leon: The Professional?
On a final note, one little touch that I appreciated was that the kids all look kinda dorky—like they haven't grown into their faces yet. Even the teenagers look interesting, not like generic Hollywood models. I especially like this girl's face.
19 comments :
We watched it. Watched the first 6 epsiodes last night, and last two just now. We all loved it, Clokes, me and Princess. I thought the Duffer brothers did a marvellous job, but it was like spot the [possible] influence - I saw moments of all the following movies/books: Stand by Me; teenage horror films, eg Nightmare on Elm Street; Alien; ET; the Matrix; maybe The Fly; maybe Alfred Hitchcock's The Three Investigators book series, and others I can't remember. Thought it was *very* Stephen King in parts. I thought Winona's acting was too over the top in the beginning and she was giving me the shits but then she settled down and was great, I was rooting for her. I think it should have ended where it did without the cop leaving food in the forest for Eleven (how??) and without Will having a thing sliming out of his mouth. I don't think a second series would be very good somehow. The monster did look a bit wanky in the end and once we saw it fully it wasn't so menacing but at the same time it kind of fitted the '80s vibe. Agree re thought she was like Natalie Portman in TP defo, also we commented on how normal the teenagers and kids looked, that even the sister, who was maybe 'pretty' if she was on a show where they had the regular standards of looks, she would be the dork.
Thought the girl playing Eleven was staggeringly good, but they all were really, not like the usual shit-house kids actors.
One thing we really liked was how the adults and teens and kids all worked together towards the end, whereas usually it's kids telling adults something and the adults not believing and working counter to etc. and I agree, that was a really powerful moment when the cop said he believed her (Winona) - so many compelling scenes actually. We were gripped.
I also liked that there were some really subtle moments. The AV teacher on the couch with his date - that she was Asian tells us so much, without saying anything ("that he can't get a woman from his own race" type of rubbish belief, but it's kind of true, or that caucasian women don't appreciate/aren't attracted to someone like that. Just as the exchange between Mikey and his sister - each lying that they weren't interested romantically in (him El, her Will's brother) - but i thought it a nice twist at the end that she was back with Steve... defo another indication for a second season, otherwise she would have ended up with Will's brother.
It was great, I'm sad it's over, really really liked it, thanks for being the final person to mention it that pushed me to watch.
Goonies, Carrie, Firestarter, and others, I'm sure.
I heard one person describe it as a patchwork of clichés and homages that was so perfectly pieced together that it didn't even matter that there wasn't a single original stitch. The greatest piece of derivative nostalgia porn that's ever existed.
Might be a bit hyperbolic, but pretty close, I reckon.
People seem really divided on Winona. I heard one bloke say something along the lines of, "She was a perfect—perfect—depiction of my mother when my sister went missing at Disney Land for four hours". But then there's other folks who just aren't buying her. I thought she was just right.
Will coughing up the slug and Hopper leaving the food, I didn't mind, because there was a level of ambiguity to it, and I don't mind a story like this leaving you with questions; however, I agree, I don't see how a second season could be anywhere near as good.
Yes, top-notch child acting; but then, top-notch acting all around, I thought.
I didn't pick up on the interracial couple having any special significance. I did like Steve's redemption though. When he showed up at Winona's house, I thought he was monster-chow for sure. And then he freaks out and escapes but risks everything to come back. Was quite a subversion of my expectations.
Can I also point out how much it added to the story that there was no mobile phones or internet.
As for compelling scenes, these are parts where I can remember tearing up, or almost tearing up:
• When Winona first sees the monster and runs out to her car, but then turns around and goes back inside.
• When Jonno asks Nancy if the man she saw had a face.
• When Hopper tells Winona that he believes her.
• When Eleven attacks the bully with the knife.
• When Eleven says goodbye. I'm amazed at how much gravitas this scene had when there was a wanky looking monster flailing comically in the background.
I think "gripping" is a good adjective to describe the whole show.
Yes Carrie as well, I mentioned that as we were watching. There were so many cliches, the dialogue especially, and even a couple of cheeky nods to what they were doing (the lisping kid said something at some stage about in a horror movie this is where you say what the hell is going on' or similar.
Agree re Steve and the redemption - turning up, we thought he was gone too, so that was unexpected, absolutely.
• When Winona first sees the monster and runs out to her car, but then turns around and goes back inside. YES I WAS CHEERING HER, AND SHE WENT UP IN MY ESTEEM FROM THEN ON
• When Jonno asks Nancy if the man she saw had a face. WHO WAS JONNO AGAIN?
• When Hopper tells Winona that he believes her. YESS
• When Eleven attacks the bully with the knife. YESS
• When Eleven says goodbye. I'm amazed at how much gravitas this scene had when there was a wanky looking monster flailing comically in the background. YES AGREE, STRANGE MONSTER NOT V SCARY ONCE IT WAS WHOLLY SEEN. BUT SHE WAS AMAZING, WE KNEW SHE WAS GOING TO SELF SACRIFICE EARLY ON. BUT IT WAS A GOOD SCENE.
I am interstate tomorrow until friday so won't get back here until the weekend. I want to read more about what other people are saying about this show. It was such a nostalgia-trip - the bikes, the clothes, the hairdos, done really well. And all the phone box action and real phones with rotary dials. I got really scared a few times too, it was good.
have a good week
Enjoy your trip, Melbs, and I'll talk to you when you get back.
Jonno was Winona's eldest boy, Will's big brother, the bloke with the camera, etc. The scene I was talking about was the one in which Jonno is picking out a coffin for Will, and Nancy comes to talk to him about the "thing" in the photo he took. She says that when she went back the next day to look for Barb, she saw a strange looking man. He asks her, "Strange how?", and you can tell she doesn't want to say it because of how crazy it sounds, and he says, "Like he didn't have a face?"
I got a huge emotional rush from that.
Also, I've been thinking about "the upside down" world, and I reckon the theory the characters came up with in the show doesn't make sense, so I've come up with a theory that I think does. I won't go into though unless you're keen to discuss. When you start analysing fiction at this level, things get pretty nerdy.
Hi I'm back
Do tell of your theory, I love talking about theories!
I do remember that moment when he said 'like he didn't have a face' it was a good moment, I just couldn't remember who'd said it. My memory can be so bad these days, and so good. Thinking it's the menopause... I'm laying off wine so it can't be that unless damage already done ;)
I know what it's like to have memory problems. I carry a notepad everywhere, nowadays.
Also, how was your trip?
THE UPSIDE DOWN THEORY:
First of all "The Upside Down" is too much to write, so I'm shortening it to TUD. In the show, the characters theorise that the TUD is like a mirror image of our world. This doesn't sit right with me.
Time seemed to pass fairly linearly in TUD. The world wasn't continuously being destroyed and remade in our world's image, and objects in TUD seemed fairly persistent and "ordinary". Things weren't flying around continuously or popping in and out of existence.
Winona's house existed in TUD, but what existed in that spot before the house was built in our world. And what did it look like while the house was being built? Did the house frame magically appear, followed by the plumbing, and then the roof, etc? Did the materials fly around and place themselves where they needed to go? When Winona painted letters on the walls, did a floating paintbrush do the same in TUD? And why didn't the TUD hallway have a bear trap in it when Winona & Hop walked through the house?
Also, there wasn't any sign of any people, or remains of any people, or weird "mirror" people—except for the monster, and what was he supposed to be a mirror image of? Why was he indestructible?
Personally, I think there's a much simpler and more satisfying explanation. What if TUD was just an ordinary parallel dimension, one of an infinite number, completely distinct and separate from our own. It's got a monster, a few other native life-forms, a heap of floating spoor thingies, and the whole place is covered in weird sludgy stuff. When the "gate" opens, it creates a "weak zone" where stuff can pass between the two dimension (so far, not even theoretical). What if—just in that one isolated are—stuff from our world started bleeding through into TUD—but not in a completely uniform fashion. Maybe something has to be sitting in the same spot for a certain amount of time before it "casts a shadow" into TUD.
So, why was everything rotten and rusted in TUD? Well, they did say the atmosphere was toxic, maybe it's highly corrosive too.
For some reason, this just seems more reasonable to me. What do you think?
I LOVED Stranger Things.
I thought Winona was just perfect. I don't have kids but I know how hysterical I would be in her position and I love that she didn't hold anything back from that. It reminded me what a great actress she was/is before we all get distracted by her drugging/shoplifting/arresting etc. Like RDJ, she has to find her way back from that and this is a great way.
I thought the monster was scary enough thanks. But I've been prone to nightmares lately so it wouldn't take much.
One of the things that has bothered me is the lack of interest shown in poor Barb's fate. I mean, I know she was a bit of a dag, but she was so me back in those days, I could not help but identify with her, and no-one, not even her parents really cared when she went missing except for Beth(?).
I loved the musical soundtrack, and the way they used the screaming guitars for the score, it was so 80s. Though oddly it took me a while to figure out that it wasn't just a really backward town, that it was SET in the 80s (and even then it was the complete lack of mobile phones I think, or maybe the music that made me realise). By the by, I watched Barracuda this week, which was brilliant, and it was only again the complete absence of mobiles and the sight of an old Telstra 500 phone that twigged me that it wasn't meant to be contemporary. I must be really shit at picking up those cues, but I often find myself thinking "why don't they just PHONE the person?" when I watch stuff like that and then getting frustrated when I remember that back then, we couldn't "just" do that.
(though I got my first mobile in 1996, it was only 2010 when the last holdout of my friends finally bought herself a basic Nokia. And don't even get me started on hubby's father, who had one but hated that people could phone him all the time, so refuses to carry one now. Which would be fine, but his plane was delayed coming out of Vegas, and we don't even know, three days later, whether he's made it home, which is infuriating)
This show had so much Stand By Me in it, I'm surprised the writers of that movie don't sue. That's not to say I didn't love it. And the ET bike-chase scene? I was actually surprised that Elle didn't use her brain to float them all away, ET-style. (though I'm glad she wasn't found face-down in a stream in the forest afterward)
I am watching the soccer right now, AUS-BRA and remembering how much I hate penalty shootouts. They never seem fair. Go the Matildas. ETA: darn.
I feel like the ending was unnecessary, but understand why they did it. But to be honest, I'd be keener to see them do something like Fargo, where the second series is set in a similar place, but with a whole new set of characters, maybe a couple from season 1. If they want to keep the story going a little longer the characters did not need to be the same.
Suze, we were also talking about Barb and I was saying (to my daughter, and husband) 'that was me, the friend, the dag' - so at least some of us viewers were caring about her.
Also we commented on how good the music was, it was really perfect.
I want to clarify, I thought Winona's character too over the top at the beginning. Daughter was saying 'but wouldn't you be freaking out if i went missing' and I was like 'yeah, but maybe not that outwardly' - so I thought she scaled it up too much too soon, but then after a while it seemed apt.
I could have done without the ending as well, the leaving the food in the woods and the slime slug in the sink... to me it cheapened what had gone before but I guess if we're talking about all the tropes, then those are two more, the so-called twists or eerie hints that all is not done.
Has anyone else watched the second True Detective? Apparently not as good.
*
Alex, your theory makes more sense to me and yes, holes in their theory. I kind of felt that it was an overlay but in another dimension. One thing we couldn't work out was why when Eleven went to the upside down place it was all black (and that bit was reminiscent of Under the Skin, the movie with Scarlett Johannson, it's a fantastic short novel and I recommend the movie by the way it's so weird and great) but when the others did it went to the weird place inside the tree or inside Winona's house where evertyhing was ghostly and delapidated. Any ideas about that? Is that because Eleven didn't physically go there, she was the conduit and it was in her mind, whereas for the others they 'went there' physically? To me there were ways of breaking through but it was more a side by side parallel thing - not mirror, not inverse - or maybe even a time thing.
Probably the makers couldn't even explain properly. (Also that thing with the rope and the figures and the ant? Is that in any way connected to a real world theory?)
Ditto on the soccer and the disappointment with penalty shoot-outs. Also saw Shelley Watts fight this morning, which was similarly disappointing—developed a soft spot for her during the last Commonwealth Games. Did you see any of the women's rugby? Wasn't it great?
As I don't have any interest in the lives of celebrities, I don't have a good grasp on Winona's legal troubles or her tale of redemption or whatever. I have heard some podcast people mention it, but nobody has talked about it much—which is a good thing. Who is RDJ?
I heard someone on one of the podcasts say the directors used Stand By Me while casting the kid actors, because they specifically wanted to capture that vibe (dunno how true that is).
To be fair to Barb's mum, we only see her once, and at that point she still thinks her daughter slept over at Nancy's place. I can't really fault the other characters for being more concerned about Will. I was a bit put out by Barb's fate, as I had instantly taken a liking to her. It was an extra nasty kick in the guts too, since I'd also taken an instant liking to the fat bearded bloke who ran the cafe where we first met Eleven—and I was still smarting after what happened to him.
I actually don't remember screaming guitars in the score. What stood out to me was the low-key synth stuff. Also super '80s.
I think I'd have more confidence in a second season if I knew it was a different story with different characters. They could even re-cast the same actors. I just feel like this story should be "finished". Haven't seen Fargo but hear it is similarly excellent.
I think I mentioned it before, but I reckon the lack of mobile phones and internet really added to the atmosphere. And one of the big problems with not having a mobile these days is that there aren't that many pay phones left.
I have Barracuda on tape. I'll put it on the list, after Kimmy Schmidt.
You must have posted while I was typing Melbs.
The thing with Eleven made perfect sense to me, and yes, I believe it was because she wasn't actually going to TUD, she was "traveling" in a shared psychic space (astral plane). It's something I've seen in sci-fi comics many times before, but I did wonder if other people were going to have trouble reconciling the two. Also, did you notice that it looked similar when she psychically "traveled" to Russia to spy on that bloke. I think that was meant to help.
The diagram with the ant on the rope—I guess it could apply to either theory. Actually, I remember that to start with, the teacher talks a little bit about infinite parallel dimensions, before the kids take him down the route of there being a mirror world.
I haven't even watched the first True Detective yet (also on the list), but have heard the second one is a BIG let down. Are they making a third?
Still not reading the above due to possible spoilers but I note that Stranger Things looks like a teen show? Is it suitable for 13yr LittleSquib as it says 15 plus? Is it worth watching or not?
Worth watching, we really liked it. Is pretty eerie/scary/spooky so may be ok for LS or may not be. it's not graphic though, and from memory there's no swearing (whether that's a prob for you or not) and no sex. So really, it's pretty mild just spooky and I found it eerie but I have a low-threshold for scary stuff. I'm a wimp.
Alex?
Don't know if they're making a third TD but the second was apparently shit. I HIGHLY recommend the first one though. I watched it two or three times.
I agree that it's absolutely worth watching. I have emailed Squib telling her so and letting her know what's what as far as age-appropriate content is concerned. That way she doesn't have to risk reading comments and seeing something she shouldn't.
Just listened to another podcast talking about the show. They talked specifically about Barb and how, even though we don't see that much of her, she's still a fully-formed and relatable character. Apparently there is a large and growing "Barb" fan movement, and fan-art of her can be found all over Stranger Things discussion pages.
Also, my spell-checker is flagging "relatable" as not being a word. Bullshit.
Barb fan art? haha Is it her turning the tables on the monster and smashing it's lippy face in?
I personally think an average 13yo these days would have little trouble with the show, unless they were ridiculously sheltered. But I am not a mother so Squib may want to check a couple of eps out herself first.
RDJ is Robert Downey Jnr. It did occur to me that you might not have a clue, but basically he had a serious substance abuse problem, but was such a brilliant and charismatic actor that the studios ignored it until it all turned to crap and he was arrested or something. Then, like Winona, nobody hired him for years, but now he's all cool and Iron Man again. Funny the hypocrisy of Hollywood/celebrity in general. Everyone knows you need to be either ridiculously blessed or a coke addict to stay thin enough for it, but they turn on you HARD if your use gets made public for whatever reason.
I too was genuinely upset by the killing of the cafe man. I found myself wondering if Joss Whedon or his alumni were involved in the show.
Where are you finding these podcasts Alex?
I listen to a combination of nerd-oriented audio podcasts, and Youtube & Twitch channels (which I strip the audio off of myself*). I don't listen to anything that specifically covers TV shows; so when everyone I listen to starts raving about the same show all at once, it's generally a signal that it's something special.**
Most of the Barb fan art I've seen looks like this. Try searching for "What about Barb", "Justice for Barb", and "Barb deserved better".
* Melba has got me into the habit of calling them all podcasts, even though technically I guess they're not.
** Speaking of dodgy stuff that goes on in Hollywood, I was listening to a podcast relatively recently, that featured a script-writer getting sidetracked into talking about how predatory the whole system is. He talked about hetero male friends who couldn't get their foot in the door because they wouldn't suck dick, and about how women generally have no chance. Ugh, the price of fame, eh?
What about Barb? Awesome.
Though I thought it was pretty clear she was dead?
yeah barb is dead
and i forgot to say i was shocked and upset with the killing of cafe man. thought he'd be around for the whole thing so that was kind of a shock
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