As if in response to my previous post, today I'm listening to an American podcast (internet radio) in which a major topic of discussion is dealing with cyber-bullying; and of course that means revisiting the Apple-celebrity-nudes-leak-scandal (aka The Fappening). Okay; fair enough.
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| Me at the office a month ago. Dressed like Spider-Man, obviously. |
I trust you'll tell me if I'm wrong on this one, but this whole premise just seems utterly fucked to me.
Firstly, possession of child porn isn't a sex crime. Filming yourself having sex with a child is a sex crime; possessing a copy of that film is a crime of, well, possession. I'm not defending anything here; what I'm saying is that some loathsome cunt who wanks off to horrifying pictures he finds on the internet is committing a completely different type of crime to the loathsome cunt who produced those pictures in the first place. It's like if someone bashes you, and while you're unconscious, some unrelated party steals your handbag. Yes, the thief is still a cunt, but he's not responsible for or complicit in the bashing -- whether you'd like him to be or not.
And let's not forget, nobody was actually abused, sexually or otherwise, in the production of these particular pickies. I'm sure the celebrities involved feel legitimately violated, but that's not a good reason to start arbitrarily expanding the definition of words. Under this new concept, if a pick-pocket lifts your mobile phone and it happens to have some candid photos on it, you may as well just label them a rapist, because it's basically the same as if they'd sexually assaulted you, right?
-- And another thing, cyber-bullying does not count as violence against women. Again, I'm not saying it's a good thing, but violence has a specific meaning that does not include typing nasty shit on a computer; nor should anyone be attempting to broaden the definition to include such things. Just call it what it is instead of playing with words to manipulate people's emotions.* --
... fucking hell; here's why this bugs me so much:
I don't know if it was weeks or months ago now (time just seems like a blur these days), but a little while ago, I heard a clip of British PM David Cameron saying that anyone who watched or shared ISIS beheading videos was complicit in an act of terrorism. ... the fuck?
Actually, I've noticed that in The States too, they seem to have started a process of gradually reclassifying regular crimes as acts of domestic terrorism. I guess once you label someone a terrorist, it's easier to justify killing them without any sort of due process.
And speaking of The US, remember with both the Manning and Snowden leaks, how in America there was debate about whether or not publishing or reporting on the documents was itself an act of treason? With the Manning case in particular, do you remember when Prime Minister Julia Gillard and Attorney General What's-His-Face said that Assange was a criminal, and spoke about revoking his citizenship, when he hadn't even been charged with anything? (Fuck, I lost a lot of respect for Gillard that day)
Words have to have meanings, and those meanings have to fucking well mean something. And just because something grubby happened that involved some pictures of tits, doesn't make it a fucking sex crime. I can understand why politicians try to get away with this type of bullshit, but when whole swathes of the media and supposed "public intellectuals" start arbitrarily broadening definitions to suit themselves, and nobody in the crowd says hold up, what the fuck are you doing? ... well, I don't know where the fuck it leads*, but I can't imagine it's anywhere good. So, um, fuck the lot of 'em. Cunts.
*Maybe the best example of where it leads is how now we all just blithely talk about intellectual property violations as stealing. Why? Because "stealing" sounds so much more egregious than "copying" doesn't it? But that's exactly what it is. You can't actually steal a fucking idea. We have a word that means the exact thing we're talking about, but we've been collectively trained to use a different word that means something else, because it has a stronger negative connotation.
I welcome all comments calling me a fuckwit on this.
VIDEOS OF THE WEEK (or "Isn't It All A Little Bit Bullshit?")
I listened to two ABC docos this week. Helen Garner's Monkey Grip, and The Making of Modern Australia Part 1: The Child. While I wouldn't rate either as "must watch", they were both pretty decent. However, as I listened to the first, I kind of became overwhelmed with a sense that skewed the way I listened to the second.
Basically, in the Monkey Grip doco, there's a bunch of older people talking about how the book perfectly captured the lives of a generation of Australians, and younger people talking about how it's this wonderful snapshot of Australian history, etc, etc. What only gets lightly touched on by Noni Hazelhurst towards the end is that it's really a snapshot of a specific group of people living in a specific part of Melbourne. And while I'm sure it reflected the lives of many people across Australia, I'm equally sure it didn't reflect the lives of many many more. So while, yes, for the people of that time and place, it was their whole world, it certainly wasn't the whole world.
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| At least there's one nude celebrity on the internet that I recognise. |
It's the same general problem I have with surveys and certain scientific studies. Isn't it true that you're only ever testing the kinds of people who are willing to participate? That your scope is limited to a subset of people who have a particular behavioural inclination? Of course, we'll never know the degree of the bias, because you literally can't test outside that group; but shouldn't you at least keep that in mind when looking at the results?
How would you write a book that tells the story of "this generation of Australian"? (I guess you'd probably write something about fucking Facebook and mobile phones.) But look at Australia today, and how broad the culture is, and the variety and nuance and all that sort of crap. Look at the arguments, and differences in ideals, and lifestyles, and how different people living in different circles view things in completely different ways. (Hell, I guess everybody sees things at least a little differently, don't they?). But how much of that gets reflected in literature and media that anyone's going to look at a hundred years hence. Still, no doubt in a hundred years, people will be looking at the books and articles and other bits and pieces that have survived and are considered "historically significant", and they'll mold those tiny remnants into a canonical view of what things were really like, probably while chucking around word like revolution and zeitgeist -- and it'll all be a little bullshit, won't it?
I should say that I'm not in any way criticising works like Monkey Grip; I'm criticising the way they're sometimes presented in a historical context that's broader than what it maybe should be. I guess I'm just bitching about broadness today.
So, how about something on a lighter note?
MUSIC OF THE WEEK (or "This Week In 1987")
I like to listen to non-lyrical music when I'm doing things that require a degree of concentration; and in more recent years, I've found myself listening to more and more electronic shit. This has in turn led to me listening to more and more non-non-lyrical electronic shit when I'm doing things that don't require so much concentration.
One of the acts that I've discovered and taken a shine to is Koobra - a DJ/musician from Helsinki Finland. He first came to my attention when I saw this promo video for a Nokia phone and got curious about the very 80s sounding song they'd used.
Anyway, it looks like he's partnered up with the mysterious "Joanna" again to produce this thing.
Maybe it's just because I've done video production work in the past, but I find this clip fascinating. The description on YouTube credits Pablo Films, which is also based in Helsinki and lists Nokia (formerly Finish) as a client; and there is some overlap with the names credited for the Nokia video.
To be honest, I think I'm mainly just impressed with how cheap it all looks. A camera, a couple of lights, a smoke machine, a fan, a dolly, a building, a paddock, a couple of stock shots, some makeup and a black sheet to drape over the singer and blow around with the fan. And yet it complements the song so beautifully. If it wasn't obviously shot on high-def digital video, this could easily be something plucked directly from the 1980s.
I don't know if the retro thing is big in Finland, but if they filmed this over a weekend for a modest price (as I'd like to imagine they did), then my hat is off to this lot.
What can I say, I appreciate economic and efficient creativity.
WINDOWS OF THE WEEK (or "What the Fuck Happened to 9?")
I don't know if you know this or not, but Microsoft has put out a free work-in-progress version of the upcoming Windows 10. You can read about and join the "Insider Program" here, or just skip all that bullshit and download it here.
While I don't care for Windows in general, It's not something I can really avoid, and I'd say this version is at least not looking too bad. While I definitely would NOT install this demo on my main computer, if you've got some hardware you're not using or know what a virtual machine is, it might be worth checking out. Depending on how they play their cards, this one might end up being the next XP (ie: everywhere for ages); so why not get a handle on it now, ay?
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17 comments :
Saying anyone who looks at the celebrity nudes is committing a sex crime is just silly. Stealing the pictures is definitely wrong but is it a sex crime? I don't know, it's a really grey area because on the one hand the celebrity feels violated and so it's wrong but on the other hand, maybe they should be tech savvy because people's accounts get hacked all the time. On the third hand, who cares
IMO possession of child porn is a sex crime, even if it is a lesser sex crime than the person who did the stuff in the first place
Cyber-bullying is violence against women if it takes the form of rape threats and that kind of thing. Trolls can be extremely scary and they can spill over into real life
Completely agree that calling Assange a criminal and threatening to uncitizen him - was unjust and well stupid
Is Windows 10 more like the old one?
Is Windows 10 more like the old one?
Mercifully, yes. As far as the interface goes, a lot of the Windows 8 crap has been reigned in, and it feels more like Windows 7 with a little bit of Windows 8 crap tacked on. They've also pinched the multiple desktop concept from the *nix world, which is nice.
Stealing the pictures is definitely wrong but is it a sex crime? I don't know, it's a really grey area because on the one hand the celebrity feels violated and so it's wrong but on the other hand, maybe they should be tech savvy because people's accounts get hacked all the time. On the third hand, who cares
Good point Hand 3, but unfortunately, I care about this shit when the people I listen to for industry related news keep talking about it. Hand 1, is that how we define a sex crime? Anything that's wrong and makes someone feel violated? Hand 2, as far as I see it, you can look at it like car theft and opportunistic assault. Victims are completely blameless, but people are being dangerously unrealistic if they denounce real-world-with-shitty-people-in-it common-sense advice like "lock up your car" and "don't walk down dark alleys by yourself".
Cyber-bullying is violence against women if it takes the form of rape threats and that kind of thing. Trolls can be extremely scary and they can spill over into real life
They can and are and do. They can be creepy and abusive and terrifying and if they escalate things to the physical world, then yes, they can be violent. But not until then. In my view. I draw a distinction between a threat of violence and an act of violence, and don't count the threat as itself being a violent act. Do you not draw that distinction? I should point out that many government bodies and NGOs and stuff like the World Health Organization no longer draw it either. I'm still calling bullshit.
IMO possession of child porn is a sex crime, even if it is a lesser sex crime than the person who did the stuff in the first place
Maybe I'm wrong. Can you explain this to me? Looking at pictures of abused kids is definitely a sex crime, looking at stolen photos of adults is definitely not, but stealing the photos might be? What about looking at images of an abused adult? What about fake pictures of kids? There was a bloke in NSW who got convicted maybe 8 or 10 years ago for having porno drawings of Bart and Lisa Simpson. Sex crime or not? And what about my scenario of stealing a phone that has sexy photos on it? Does the definition change depending on what the thief thinks they might find on there?
Sorry if I'm coming of as combative. I'm in a debatey mood.
Reigned in? Yes. By The Queen.
To further my point about calling bullshit on The WHO (fuckin' over-hyped band), The word that perfectly describes what they're talking about is "abuse". As far as I can see, they're taking the word "violence", which means something else, and mis-applying it, because it has a much stronger negative connotation, and is therefore likely to produce a stronger reaction in people. I don't like this. If you want to talk about abuse against women, talk about abuse against women.
I draw a distinction between a threat of violence and an act of violence, and don't count the threat as itself being a violent act.
I think it depends. There are throw away threats like if you loose my coat I'm going to kill you. Fine. But if you are speaking out against the oppression of women and someone says I'm going to rape you, I would call that violence because communication is a physical act. If a guy screams abuse at his partner but doesn't actually touch her, that's still violence. Note the word effect below
"2 The state or quality of being violent in action or effect; great force or strength in operation; vehemence, severity, intensity. Also, an instance of this. LME."
Maybe I'm wrong. Can you explain this to me? Looking at pictures of abused kids is definitely a sex crime,
Yes because this kind of sex is non-consensual and illegal and reprehensible
looking at stolen photos of adults is definitely not, but stealing the photos might be? What about looking at images of an abused adult?
Again, if it's consensual and involving adults then it's more voyeuristic than criminal. If the adult abuse is non-consensual then it's a crime
What about fake pictures of kids? There was a bloke in NSW who got convicted maybe 8 or 10 years ago for having porno drawings of Bart and Lisa Simpson. Sex crime or not?
Is that the full story because that doesn't sound right to me
And what about my scenario of stealing a phone that has sexy photos on it? Does the definition change depending on what the thief thinks they might find on there?
No. Stealing a phone is just stealing a phone
Sorry if I'm coming of as combative. I'm in a debatey mood.
Not at all. It's interesting. More on the word violence:
"3 Strength or intensity of emotion; fervour, passion. LME.
Sir W. Scott Nothing to deserve such a horrid imputation as your violence infers.
4 The action or an act of constraining or forcing unnatural change upon something; spec. (a) misinterpretation or misapplication of a word etc."
The last one is funny in the current context :)
Thank you for persisting Squib. I know some people find this kind of back and forth tiresome.
***Sex crime
Is that the full story because that doesn't sound right to me
If I stretch my brain back, I believe the reason he got caught was that he was a paroled sex offender who thought he was staying within the boundaries of the law. But laws in most jurisdictions have wording like "images depicting children" and then that's left up to the beak to interpret. So, of course, if you're a paroled sex offender, you may get a harsher interpretation than if you were the son of a politician. I believe people have also gone down for images of adults role-playing as children.
On a related note, I believe it's still technically illegal to sell hardcore pornography in QLD; but there's a store that openly sells it just down the road from me. Been there for years. As far as I know, it's never been raided. Selective application of the law.
Looking at pictures of abused kids is definitely a sex crime,
Yes because this kind of sex is non-consensual and illegal and reprehensible
I agree. Non-consensual, illegal, reprehensible. Agree, agree, agree. It is a crime. A bad one. Here's where I'm lost: Why specifically is it a SEX crime?
Again, if it's consensual and involving adults then it's more voyeuristic than criminal. If the adult abuse is non-consensual then it's a crime
Firstly, I'm not sure that looking at pictures of adults being raped is even against the law. But let's say we're defining our own crimes along moral lines here. The point of contention for me is still the same thing, why specifically a SEX crime?
Okay, this one might get to the heart of my confusion: Peeping through someone's window and watching them have sex is a voyeuristic crime; but not a sex crime, right? However, peeping through someone's window and watching them get raped is a sex crime? Certainly the rapist is committing a sex crime, but we're not worried about him. His crime is separate to the crime of the peeping tom. The peeping tom is still committing a crime by peeping, and may be committing an additional crime by not reporting or intervening in the rape; but how does what he is doing go from regular crime to sex crime?
***Violence
I don't know if there's any confusion on this one. It looks like straight up disagreement.
if you are speaking out against the oppression of women and someone says I'm going to rape you, I would call that violence because communication is a physical act.
Yes it is a physical act. But not all physical acts are violent (obviously); and not all physical acts associated with a violent act are violent. The threat is not a violent act. It is a threat to commit a violent act in the future. The violent act would be when he rapes you. Or wouldn't be when he doesn't, hopefully.
If a guy screams abuse at his partner but doesn't actually touch her, that's still violence
If he screams abuse, I'd call it abuse; and I'd call him abusive. I wouldn't call it violence until it got physical.
I don't know the rules of dueling dictionaries, but here's what Oxford Online seems to reckon:
noun
[mass noun]
1) Behaviour involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something:
Examples ...
• violence erupted in protest marches
• domestic violence against women
• the fear of physical violence
• screen violence
1.1 - Law) The unlawful exercise of physical force or intimidation by the exhibition of such force.
2) Strength of emotion or of a destructive natural force:
Examples ...
• the violence of her own feelings
Origin:
Middle English: via Old French from Latin violentia, from violent- 'vehement, violent' (see violent).
Phrases
do violence to
Damage or adversely affect:
Examples ...
• how can we regulate access to weapons without doing violence to the constitution?
It doesn't have all the extra stuff your dictionary does. Even under the legal definition, it says intimidation by the exhibition of force, not the threat of force.
***
I have to get some sleep now. Will check back in the morning.
When I laid down, this jumped into my head. It may or may not help explain my stance on the violence thing.
If I come across a burning building and I yell to the bedridden elderly person inside "I'm going to try to run in and save you", I haven't performed a heroic act. Not unless I actually do it.
Hmmm, when I see it written down, it doesn't look that helpful at all. Oh well, good night, again.
I agree with both of you. I think violence is a physical act, however abuse can be physical or emotional or verbal. I also see though Alex how the meanings of words are shifting, through use that is either mistakenly incorrect and/or inaccurate, or deliberately misused for some end (what I don't know. Who the fuck knows anything any more?)
On the celebrity photos, unless some are underage and therefore illegal pornography, then people looking at them are in a different category to the people who hacked and disseminated them. With child sexual exploitation material though it's different because it's an industry and while the people who perpetuate these crimes, and they are sexual crimes, whether they are production and dissemination of explicit images and/or images of sexual abuse by others, I reckon the people who look at them are also committing not only a crime but a hugely moral transgression because they are the audience, they are the demand, they are complicit in creating and perpetuating the 'industry.' Also I've heard it said that children whose images are being circulated, for years, feel that they are newly abused whenever someone looks at the images. I see it as different to the celebrity thing too because as squib said, it's an issue of consent. Children don't give consent for this abuse, they can't; even if groomed to the point where they may say 'yes' they are underage and legally, technically cannot give consent. Celebrities have (presumably) given consent for pictures to be taken but have not given consent for them to be viewed by others. I don't think this is criminal (happy to be wrong.)
I can see how arguments could be made along the lines of: all the celeb pics are of women, women in that industry are probably groomed to behave in certain ways, or even women IRL can be 'groomed' by their partners to pose for/send nude pics etc etc. I'm not sure about that but while I can see an argument it's completely different to the context of minors.
I've had a good think about this.
I think I agree with everything you've send Melba. Also, I think you get this, and are making your own separate points, but I do want to state one more time, for absolute clarity, that I am not making an argument for any of this being either moral or legal. I am merely objecting to what I see as a over-extension of the label "SEX CRIME".
I can see how arguments could be made along the lines of: all the celeb pics are of women
I think there were, like, two blokes, or something, but that's largely beside the point.
women in that industry are probably groomed to behave in certain ways, or even women IRL can be 'groomed' by their partners to pose for/send nude pics etc etc.
I would probably agree with that. In fact, I might even say that these industries are not only grooming the women inside them, but the public in general.
I've heard it said that children whose images are being circulated, for years, feel that they are newly abused whenever someone looks at the images.
I've heard this too. I've also read, sometimes in books written by authors you've talked about, that many adult women who do porn consensually, maybe because they were short a quid, they were pressured into it by someone, they had a substance issue, or just because they were young and naive, experience these same feelings when they think about people looking at images of them being, basically, exploited. I think at least one of the celebrity women involved described feeling this way too. So yes, that is a real thing that affects many people.
With child sexual exploitation material though it's different because it's an industry and while the people who perpetuate these crimes, and they are sexual crimes, whether they are production and dissemination of explicit images and/or images of sexual abuse by others, I reckon the people who look at them are also committing not only a crime but a hugely moral transgression because they are the audience, they are the demand, they are complicit in creating and perpetuating the 'industry.'
That is an interesting angle to come at this by. Someone who pimps a child but never touches them is a sex criminal to me. Someone who's involved in organising, planning, or funding? Yes. Also, someone who films but doesn't take part. Basically, anyone who has a direct hand in making it happen. Someone who facilitates it, by creating a marketplace/demand?
Hmmmm.
I've bought products when I was 99% certain that the labour that went into producing them was provided by exploited/abused/enslaved children. I'll bet you have too. Is what we're doing child-exploitation, or something else? How far along the chain do you have to go before you can say "This person is guilty of child-exploitation"?
I have never been that certain that something I have bought was made with child labour. Whereas someone buying child porn is doing so expressly because it involves children. Also, I tend to see sexual exploitation as being far worse than work exploitation
The dictionary I was using was the full OED - the 20 volume set
As you know, definitions continually shift anyway and our language is always evolving. But I get what you are saying, everything is overstated these days and then everyone gets on the overstated bandwagon. I think it has something to do with there being way too much of everything on teh internet. The only way to grab attention is to overstate things
I have never been that certain that something I have bought was made with child labour.
Seriously? Have you never read about where chocolate comes from? Or the supply chain of minerals like cobalt & coltan? Or are you just incredibly judicious with your shopping?
Also, I tend to see sexual exploitation as being far worse than work exploitation
Of course. We all do. Otherwise life would be pretty unbearable for those of us whose lifestyles are subsidised by the suffering of dark people in far off lands.
*I've spent fifteen minutes trying to make the above statements sound less bitchy and antagonistic. Yes, that was the best I could do.
***
The dictionary I was using was the full OED - the 20 volume set
Show off!
*Really, I'm just jealous.
***
The only way to grab attention is to overstate things
Yes, I think that covers most of it pretty nicely.
And while I'm sure a lot of this hyperbole comes from a place of sincere concern, I also think you have to be wary of opportunists looking to encourage and direct it. If you let yourself get swept up in emotion and rhetoric and stop being careful and methodical in your thinking, you can end up with some pretty bad outcomes, regardless of what your intentions are. Look at the asylum seeker issue here; I don't think any normal person on any side of the argument wanted the whole thing made into a military secret. In Queensland now, under Can-Do Newman's new tuff-on-crime anti-bikie laws, you can get a mandatory gaol sentence for talking to the wrong person (criminal association). On the child-porn thing, you probably already know about the problem with teenagers getting done for taking nude selfies; we've discussed the Simpsons cartoons; and you can bet that in time it'll be used as an excuse to come after online privacy too. Gradually expanding the definition of sex crime to include looking at child porn, and then to looking at leaked adult selfies, just makes this kind of crap that much easier to justify.
In related news, it seems there's been another big leak of nude selfies from some photo sharing thing called SnapChat (dubbed "The Snappening" (Jeezus Christ)). The difference here is that most (all) of these are non-famous people and many of them are probably under-age.
Also, this has been going on for a while.
It all feeds into a bigger discussion on trolls, and bullies, and the abuse of women, and cyber-crime, and online accountability. And make no mistake, there is some seriosly bad stuff going on here, and the consequences can be tragic. Remember that Kiwi TV presenter who killed herself earlier this year? Unfortunately, if you're not careful about it, you can open the door to all kinds of terrible reactionary ideas. Remember when Conroy had the brilliant plan for a secret internet blacklist?
Blogger ate my response and I can't be bothered writing it all out again. I remember saying that despite 20 volumes of dictionary, I still wrote loose my coat instead of lose. doh
I still think looking at child porn is a sex crime (with the exception of law enforcers working in that department obviously). Do I think it's a slippery slope? Not at this point. As to the gamer in the link, what are you saying? That this is not violence against women? That if we say it is, then we are censoring free speech?
That's sad. I woulda loved to have read your long comment.
Fucken Blogger. That's not the first time that's happened. I write stuff in a text editor, to be on the safe side. What do you reckon about a shift to WordPress?
As to the gamer in the link, what are you saying? That this is not violence against women?
Yes, I am. Because otherwise you're taking away the one useful descriptor that separates threatening rape and murder with actually doing it. One is a disgusting, harmful, predatory crime, the other is a disgusting, harmful, predatory, violent crime. No matter how bad the first one is, I still think they belong in such different categories that it's important to have a word that shows a clear distinction between them. Describing it as violence adds nothing but emotional convolution. You shouldn't need to label something as violent to condemn it in the strongest terms.
That if we say it is, then we are censoring free speech?
We already censor the worst forms of speech, and while I don't love that from an ideological perspective, I do accept it from a practical one. By its nature, speech is always a slippery slope. Even when it comes to threats, abuse, and harassment, there is a continuum. Some of it is relatively harmless (your lost coat example), and some of it is abhorrent and criminal, with a million shades in between. The kind that we are talking about here is already against the law. But violence is not like speech in that regard. No measure of violence is harmless or acceptable. It is always abhorrent and criminal. And as long as it is clearly and narrowly defined as its own separate thing, I don't think that's a problem. However ...
If threats are acts of violence because communication is a physical act, it's not a huge leap to say that violent language need not carry an explicit threat. Just as the university professor's definition of "sex crime" flowed from making child porn to looking at child porn to looking at nude adults without consent, why not "act of violence" flowing from explicit threat to implied threat to intimidating language to me calling Tim Wilson a fucking cunt for his economic views?
So no, I don't think that calling certain speech violence automatically equates to increased censorship. Metaphorical slippery slopes don't usually jump directly from start to finish in a single rapid bound. But I do think it needlessly positions the ball at the top of the hill.
Slightly related, but not by much ...
I'm eating my lunch today, and listening to foreign news, as I'm often wont to do, and I hear a discussion about "Extremism Disruption Orders", which The Tories have apparently proposed in The UK. The way it was being framed: If police suspect that a person's speech may cause "alarm" or "distress", or impede "public order" or "the normal functioning of democracy", they can apply to the court for an EDO against that person. That person would then have to clear with authorities anything they wished to say publicly, whether it be in the form of speech, printed word, or online. Since the incitement of violence and hatred is already a crime in The UK, these orders would specifically target legal forms of speech. The idea being that, while the speech itself would be legal, violating the order would not; thus, a person could be jailed for speech that did not violate any law.
After a quick shuffle through the internet, I see this was a big deal about two weeks ago, when Home Secretary Theresa May announced the proposals at this year's Conservative Conference. Apparently, they are selling this to the public with a wink and nod that it'll only be used against scary Muslims; and they'll be taking it to the election, since they haven't been able to get the Lib Dems on board.
Somehow I missed it up until now. Do you know anything about it Squib? Also, what's the story with UKIP? I see how they're presented in the media, but at the same time, I hear polling suggesting they may win enough seats to force a coalition with one of the majors. What're opinions on the ground like where you are?
What do you reckon about a shift to WordPress?
nah - it's just inevitable that if I write a long comment and forget to copy it, Blogger will lose it or even loose it
As to the rest, I don't know. What even is a 'nonviolent extremist' anyway? That doesn't make a lot of sense
I put UKIP in the same basket as Pauline Hanson so it's a bit of a worry that their popularity is soaring. Hopefully their inherent nastiness and stupidity will be their undoing. Sooner rather than later, please
What even is a 'nonviolent extremist' anyway?
Apparently anyone whose views can cause distress or alarm, or affect public order or the function of democracy. It sounds tailor-made for targeting the protest organisers.
Parties like UKIP seem destined to fall apart eventually, it's just a question of what side of the election it happens on, I guess. I see the French equivalent is doing quite well too. I get the impression there's a lot of dissatisfaction with the state of the EU.
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