Well, the last few days have made for a fairly unpleasant end to the week. If you haven't heard about the "Shellshock" bug that was found in Bash, you can read a fairly shitty article about it on The ABC website; or probably an news website, at this point.
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Just from talking to other people on site, I get the impression that anti-Muslim sentiments are back on the rise. There's been a fair bit of talk about "sortin' these fuckin' camel jockey's out, once and for all", and "I knew it was a bad idea, lettin' all these rag-head cunts into the country". I'm not saying these sentiments aren't out there normally anyway, but it's just been more of an overt surface-level thing in the past couple of weeks.
I haven't been consuming much news outside the tech sector, so I'm playing some catch-up here. As I understand it, this all starts with The Islamic State In Iraq; a (non?) group so nebulous that nobody can decide exactly what to call it and their symbol is a generic Muslim flag. From what I gather, this, um, movement has been around in one form or another for ages, but earlier this year they started getting perilously close to the Kurdish-Iraqi city of Erbil, where Exxon Mobil and Chevron have a huge presence. At that point, America started dropping bombs to defend the Christian Yazidi people -- who turned out not to be Christian at all. So then these Islamic State jokers started releasing beheading videos -- which wasn't really a new thing. In fact, if you look, the internet is littered with gruesome torture and execution videos from the middle east. But these ones took the media by storm for some reason. Which was a bit odd, considering everyone in the media was making such a big deal about how they didn't actually watch any of them, and neither should anyone else. However, most of the independent analysis I've seen describes them as being weird, atypical and fake-looking (maybe I shall hunt them up).
A month ago, the executioner was identified as Abdel-Majed Abdel Bary. Which makes it puzzling that this article from today didn't mention his name, and appeared to give the impression that his identity is still a mystery.
So then a week ago, police in Sydney and Brisbane conducted raids, and nabbed a bunch of blokes who were planning to make their own beheading videos. But the whole case may or may not hinge on one phone-call that nobody's actually heard? Is that right? Meanwhile, a man in Melbourne has been killed after attacking police who were not(?) investigating him for threatening the PM; The Defense Force chief has apologised after a sailor retracted his claim that he was attacked by two men of middle eastern appearance; some fat cunt who may or may not have had a knife, did some ranting at an Islamic school; and I seem to remember a couple of months ago, police shutting down a Jewish school to investigate a toolbox in a ute which, for some reason, they thought might have been a bomb (it wasn't).
The takeaway from all this is that the AFP has been exercising its right to detain people without charge, and Labor and the Libs have teamed up to give the intelligence agencies expanded powers to spy on citizens and new protections from both whistle-blowers and prosecution? And we are being subtly cajoled into the idea that we need to get used to having fewer freedoms -- except in Queensland, where we are being overtly warned that we should expect to be stopped and searched by cops who are armed and jittery.
I'm not saying there's any type of conspiracy going on, but I'm sure I smell bullshit, opportunism, and fear-mongering at work here somewhere. It would be nice to have someone like Mr E around to ask about all this.
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On a lighter note, I'd like to suggest some sort of a word-watch pool, that keeps an eye on terms that seem to be in uncommonly common usage. I'm going to kick things off with "shibboleth", which I think I've heard about three times this week, and prior to which, I think I'd probably heard about three times in total. Watch out for it being used to describe any kind of identifying marker that ties someone to a particular group.
Also, feel free to suggest your own words. If this becomes a thing, I might do up a scoreboard or something. We'll see.
How's your week been.
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EDIT
I've spent the day chasing news stories all over the web. This bloke is an ideologue and an activist, so if you watch his stuff, I recommend you put your critical thinker's hat on and get ready to be preached at. So, probably not that different to watching the regular news. But, at least his video transcripts contain links to full source material and have a sense of chronological context about them, which is not something you can say for most journalism these days.
I think this one's the most relevant:
This one's on the same topic, but from a year ago. There's some overlap, but more background, too. And this one's a general overview of American foreign policy. And this one's what makes it all happen.
And here's a series on Ukraine that I found interesting:
one : two : three : four
I might have to keep an eye on this guy.
22 comments :
I'll have to come back and read this properly so I can comment properly but:
You say "As I understand it, this all starts with The Islamic State In Iraq"
The 'all this' you're referring to, I think, is the latest rise in anti-Muslim sentiment in this country and if that's so, then all this doesn't start with the IS, something I'd never heard of until the last few weeks; the anti-muslim sentiments have been around for ages and yes they've been stirred up by the reporting of IS activities, and the stirring up by politicians, to make people scared and to justify getting involved militarily, *again* in something they/we have no business getting involved in, not simply because it's being used as a political thing, to create divides, but because it's number 23 in a long line of numbered examples of us (America) getting involved in things/creating things, to create an us and them divide, to keep people scared. It's so circular and when you watch True Detective, some of the philosophies covered in that relate here also, about time and how things never change.
I've bitten my tongue about this shit for SO LONG and even without reading newspapers and listening to the radio and watching the tv I am 100% certain that part of the problem is young people growing up in countries like this feeling disconnected from the majority culture AND their minority cultures; another part of the problem is how SuperAmerica keeps messing in countries where they shouldn't be messing, and for reasons that aren't honourable, and then the other part of the problem is that the media only report 'our side' ie the politicians side and the hype is perpetuating the divide, and feeding into the reasons why young disaffected people are then vulnerable to being persuaded by extremists, and its all creating the very thing the politicians say they are fighting against: terror.
There was an interesting chart on twitter today, showing since 1972 terror incidents have vastly decreased. The problem is these days, what is called a terrorist (ie that young guy who was shot by police during the week) is not really conventionally what a terrorist was defined as. People who see themselves as freedom fighters, struggling against oppressive regimes (and I don't mean that kid I just talked about, I'm talking generally here, theoretically) are being labelled as terrorists because of the methods they use (they think they have no choice, they are being forced into reacting) and because of the side of the line they are standing on. It's classic propaganda, it's classic skewing of viewpoint.
Oh I could go on for days, but I have to cook Moroccan lamb for people for dinner.
Other than that, my week has been really good actually except I have a haemorrhoid attack on, hasn't happened for years (not since pregnant with P I don't think) and has never been this bad. Send me good wishes and lashings of Preparation H (or Proctesydel I think it's called these days.) SHEER FUCKING AGONY.
Oh dear, that doesn't sound nice at all. I wonder what could be causing it. Are your bowels moving okay?
I have an aunt who was only about 50 or so when her vagina suddenly prolapsed out of the blue. I hope it's not the start of something like that.
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Rest assured that you don't have to bite your tongue with me. I might question, or even argue, but I'm not going to get upset and jump on you.
I spent the day looking at news, and I found an interesting website and youtube channel. Have posted links above. The stuff on Syria and Ukraine I thought was the most interesting. There's stuff about American domestic policy too, if you're interested. He also seems to be advocating some quite out-there stuff, so remember to be critical. To his credit, he posts lots of source material.
I think he covers a lot of what you're talking about in the video I embedded.
When I said "It all begins", I mean that while the paranoia is always there, like the ocean, the hysteria that rides on top seems to come in waves. I was talking about the start of this particular wave.
The Twitter chart; it makes me think of the statistics I've heard that we have more people driving on the roads now than ever before, and yet our road fatalities are historically low. Yet every year we hear about "carnage on the roads".
It seems there are opportunities to be made in fear.
Ooooh, This one on propaganda is pretty long, and a bit weird in places, but has some very interesting bits in it.
Hey Alex, thanks for that info about your aunt and prolapse. Sent me running to google. I don't want that to happen I have a history of constipation it is true, and my mother had bad haems. I think it's just my lot for whatever reason, and maybe hormone changes etc aren't helping. I'm on the Metamucil (not too happy about because of the Aspartame) and the ointment is helping I think a bit. Just counted up when I had my last period - 50 days ago, so I think I'm starting to stop! Can't help but think it's connected.
When I said I was biting my tongue, that was probs the wrong expression, and certainly not biting my tongue with you it's just that I've avoided thinking much about, and therefore articulating about, this stuff because it's overwhelming when I let myself think about it. I have the feeling we are being so manipulated.
I still plan to come back and look at your links.
I think there are so many opportunities to be made in fear, and control happens more easily. We won't be so agitated to allow governments to take more power if there are 'threats' to safety and our 'way of life', they know that.
Hey I have a question, unrelated. Last night I had friends for dinner, long-term friends. And before we'd barely started one of them was saying something like 'I don't see why calling someone a monkey is racist, if they look like a monkey' (they were talking about Adam Goodes, in the context of him being Aus of the Year; another friend was all uppity about him even being Aus of the Year because he's a footballer, he didn't know about the other stuff he's done) it was all disgusting, and I felt really stunned. From the kitchen I'm calling out things like 'you can't say that' (about the monkey thing). 'Why not?' my friend says (and then there's some discussion about how no one can say anything without someone getting offended; how PC everything is these days) and I'm in the kitchen, burning the fucking pistacchios, and getting dinner together, and I know I missed some of what they were saying but there's no way I am wrong to think she was saying racist things. Then the other friend, the one talking about Goodes and Aus of the Year started saying something about stereotypes and 'how we need them to survive' and in my work I'm all about breaking down fucking stereotypes, or at least acknowledging they exist and looking at what that might mean for individuals, and I'm in the kitchen, and I can't fucking believe what I'm hearing. This first friend, I've taken her on once in the past when she was complaining about some sort of change with health insurance, and how it was going to cost them more each year (can't remember how much, but these people earn shitloads, have no kids, she has an investment property and they own their own house together) and I was kind of saying: Well, at least you've got private health insurance and are in the position to have it, there are people who are really disadvantaged, and she got all uppity and said that she pays taxes 'I pay taxes!' as if that means she can have no empathy or understanding for issues around privilege. It was the same last night. We were sitting there, six of us, all white, all privileged but it was like only I realised that. They were so ignorant. I went and sat next to her, had tossed the pistacchios in the bin, and said 'would you say something like that in company other that ours?' (and this was after explaining to her there was a historical aspect to the term 'monkey' and that probably the word has been used for black people because of their facial features and skin colour, as an ethnicity thing, and that it's derogatory, not affectionate, and that people who are minorities have always been struggling against oppression etc etc) and she said: 'Yes, I would.
I was speechless. I was without speech. I was trying to catch Clokey's eyes but he said later he was avoiding doing that because he knew he'd just see rage.
The level of ignorance was amazing. How can people live to 50, be educated and read and live and be in the world and not get something so fundamental? And the stereotypes guy, he's gay so I would have thought he'd be sensitive to the flattening effect of stereotypes but no. What the fuck!
I have felt these two friendships have become shaky over the last few years, but really, wow. It's like they've got no idea how lucky they are, they are so unaware, so self absorbed. The other thing is, they both travel HEAPS.
Sorry for rant. I woke up really early and it was the first thing I thought about, after my sore bum.
There's a lot here, and my feelings are not straight-forward on all of it. I have written my thoughts, but at the moment, it's just a big tangled mess. I will need some time to sort it into something coherent.
Sorry to lay that all on you Alex and I realise there was actually no question put. Take your time, I'd love your take on it, maybe I'm overreacting.
The WWIII video reminded me of the stuff Mr E was saying ages ago about the oil dollar. I think the commentator is overly optimistic about the power of the people. Most people are too busy watching shit like Dancing with the Stars and they seriously don't care. Also, a lot of the people who are watching this kind of thing are conspiracy nutters like the one making comments about alien artifacts. Best stock up on iodine like I said
Never heard of Adam Goodes but I would maybe not have them over to dinner again in a hurry
I think it's a problem with trying to start any sort of political or media thing (and especially a political media thing) outside the mainstream -- as soon as you pick up any sort of momentum, you become a magnet for all kind of fringe lunatics. It's why I worry we'll never see another decent political party get off the ground in this country. That, and the Dancing With The Stars thing.
Also, I generally don't read comments on YouTube anymore. I gave up when I noticed more than half of them contained some combination of the words nigger, jew, faggot, ho.
But aside from that, did you see the stuff on Ukraine, Squib?
Ukraine hasn't been out of the headlines for the last six months, but I'm buggered if I've heard anything about the history of this Svoboda party that the Yanks have backed into power -- and it turns out they're honest-to-goodness, goose-stepping, flag-waving, "Let's do something about them Jews, boys!", style of Nazis.
Almost all of what I've heard is about how Putin is a crazy cold-war nostalgic who wants to revive the USSR.
And if you follow the source links on that site, you can find amateur footage from the aftermath of shelling and bombing in Western Ukraine. Hadn't seen any of that before, either.
Hi - yes, watched most of them. Bit annoying the way they overlap with same footage. Sinister music also annoying but otherwise interesting stuff. There are a lot of Nazis in eastern Europe. I'm not sure that I agree with the implied suggestion that the plane was deliberately sent that way in order to be shot down, just as I completely disagree with the implied suggestion in one of the vids that 9/11 was created by US directly or indirectly to facilitate the move into Iraq (a Pearl Harbour-like event). All that remains is the fact that a whole plane gets shot down and no one is held accountable. Even when someone is held accountable, eg Lockerbie, we still don't know what happened. So why even read the news at all
I dunno if you're joking Squib, but I think if everyone decides to be willfully ignorant and not even try to understand what's going on in the world, it's only going to make things worse. I worry we're going to end up (probably not in my lifetime) under a quasi-feudal system, in which elections becomes a theatrical facade and the poorly-educated peasants compete to win a "fame lottery" that will allow them to jump the class barrier before they lose their job, or get some sort of illness they can't afford to treat, and/or drown in accumulated debt.
...hmmm, on second thought, maybe that could be in my lifetime.
While the overlap is annoying, I understand if they want to make each video as self-contained as possible. However, I completely agree on the music. Mood music in news items is one of my pet peeves, along with dramatic graphics, slow-mo, etc. To be honest, I find it manipulative and off-putting.
And if you haven't already written me off as a kook, this next bit might do the trick:
Formerly sealed documents that have become public over the years tell us that in the 60s, The Pentagon did indeed plan terrorist attacks against US & allied targets that they could blame on Cuba as a pretense to invasion (which were thankfully knocked on the head by Kennedy). Also, details of naval battles in the Bay Of Tonkin were fabricated as an excuse to expedite war with North Vietnam. And my favourite -- in the 1980s, the modern, democratic country of France sent undercover agents into New Zealand to blow up a boatload of hippies who were protesting nuclear tests. Who would believe that if we didn't all know that it definitely happened?
So, given that these are the sorts of things "the good guys" get up to, it seems absolutely plausible to me that someone in Kiev might've had the bright idea to route a civilian flight through a war zone, hoping that it might get shot down. On the other hand, I'm not so far gone that I don't recognise there's a huge expanse between something being plausible and something actually happening. The point is, it's not something I'm prepared to dismiss out of hand.
But I do agree on the 9/11 stuff. While I can see why people would think there's evidence of foul play there, none of what I've seen really ads up. For instance, if you were going to manufacture another Pearl Harbour, why would you publish a document saying you needed another Pearl Harbour? You'd just go ahead and do it, right? And I'm pretty confident the reporting of tower 7 collapsing 20 mins before it collapsed can be put down to shitty journalism. Obviously something is being covered up, since portions of the investigation were sealed, but that's not evidence of a conspiracy.
Sorry for disappearing for the better part of a week. Have been quite busy. There was a bit of a faux-emergency with work. Am back home now. Have found a new doc, had an appointment, and a scan on the lump. Results pending. As is the answer to your question, Melbs.
No, not joking at all. I have been thinking why do I look at all these news sites everyday and not just once but several times. It is an incredible waste of time and also a kind of mindless consumerism. It is the same news over and over again. A lot of it is false or is filtered or skewed. In reality, it's not reality. In fact it's a very boring and repetitive soap opera
I am drawing a line here between current affairs news and other news. For example, I pick up a lot of interesting info from New Scientist about the universe around me. A lot of it is speculative but I'm learning something new
So yes, maybe news is just more bread and circuses
Forgot to say, do not think you are a kook at all. The videos were interesting and it was refreshing to see sources listed and a different take on events
Melba ...
1) I can understand somebody who gave a shit about things like Australian Of The Year getting uppity because they *thought* it had been given to someone for playing football. Even I got a bit niggled when that girl got Young Australian for sailing a fuckin' boat; and again when Obama got a Nobel Peace Prize for ... what exactly? Did your friend's opinions change when he found out about the other stuff?
2) Yes, some people seem to think that paying their taxes is all the contribution they ever need to make to society. Kind of like buying a permit to act like an arsehole, I guess. Most people I know like this are farmers who don't put anything away for tax time, and then get slugged with a bill they can't afford to pay. Then they feel like they're being robbed or persecuted. Invariably, they vote National.
3) I would like to know what your gay mate meant by "needing stereotypes to survive".
4) Racism and language; here's where things get into the weeds and I do battle with my own in-eloquence. And the worst bit is, I don't even know if I need to, as I'm sure nothing I say is going to be any sort of revelation to you. Basically, my overall point is that context and interpretation are a big deal when it comes to this shit.
But anyway ...
Consider the phrase "Fuck you, ya dirty black bitch!" I must've heard/spoken that phrase a thousand times as a teen/twenty-something, but it didn't always mean the same thing every time. Consider that phrase exchanged between close friends as a response to a lewd joke. Now consider it exchanged between those same close friends during a drunken fight, not as an expression of racial intolerance, but because one just wanted to say something nasty to the other. Consider how these scenarios might play differently if the parties involved were not close friends. Now consider all four scenarios where the speaker is fully white vs where the speaker is herself part aboriginal. How do the different permutations change your interpretation of things?
I don't know if it's a geographical or economic thing, but I know when I was young, we threw racial slurs and abusive language around without much of a care. To get an idea, imagine a 15yo Alex and six other girls of varying degrees of aboriginality, driving an old shitbox car around a paddock with the phrase "Gin Tin" lovingly painted on the side. I can't say for certain, but I think maybe it's something that's endemic to young people that we just tend to forget about once we grow up a bit? I remember once when I was taken aback by a documentary where a young bloke said he wanted to "get his rape on", and EMS responded that teens in her class quite regularly said stuff like "I'm totally raping this assignment" or "This assignment is totally raping me". The point is, I think maybe we get more sensitive to this stuff as we get older.
On the Goodes case specifically ...
Soccer fans in places like Poland often call black players monkeys, sometimes going so far as to throw bananas onto the field. Also "rock-ape" is an unambiguous racial slur that used to be fairly common in (parts of?) this country (but seems to have fallen out of usage?), so I don't doubt that Goodes felt as though he'd been racially abused. On the other hand, "monkey" and "ape" (which I think was what he was actually called) are fairly tame insults that people of all shades throw around, so I can also understand the girl saying that she didn't feel like she'd said anything racist. If Goodes had been white, or if the girl had been black, or if they'd known each other, or even if she'd called him "a fuckin' cockhead" instead, things would have no doubt been different. It's the specific insult, the racial dynamic, and the degree of familiarity, that makes the scenario questionable. And the age of the girl only adds to that. If I remember correctly, even Goodes said at the time that he didn't think she understood the implications of what she said.
So, if your friend is saying that she can't see any possible way that a white calling a black a monkey could have racial connotations, I think she's either being disingenuous or idiotic. However, if she's saying that she doesn't think this particular case was racially motivated and that Goodes/everybody over-reacted, I might be more accepting of her point of view.
Which brings us to the point on political correctness: Is it more important what the speaker intended or what the receiving party interpreted? Let me answer with a question.
Okay, so in my social circles in the 90s, Kevin Bloody Wilson was inescapable. And without a doubt, his most infamous song was Living Next Door To Alan. If you're not familiar with it, please listen to it here and read the (almost correct) lyrics here before continuing.
Whaddya reckon?
Personally, I know plenty of folk, black and white, who see that song as an example of an incredibly racist white fella perpetuating a bunch of ugly stereotypes about aboriginal people. I also know plenty of white folk love the song because it "tells it like it is" about them fuckin' coons. However, (and here's the bit where you either go "Oh, right", or "Alex, your whole point is stupid"), I also know plenty of black folk who love the song because it's about a family of regular old black fellas from the bush who cross paths with a crooked white millionaire (symbolising entrenched inequality) and get the better of him at every turn.
So, how racist is it?
A lot of it is false or is filtered or skewed. In reality, it's not reality. In fact it's a very boring and repetitive soap opera
Point taken, Squib. I guess this whole post originally started in a fit of frustration at the stories I was getting via the ABC.
1) I can understand somebody who gave a shit about things like Australian Of The Year getting uppity because they *thought* it had been given to someone for playing football. Even I got a bit niggled when that girl got Young Australian for sailing a fuckin' boat; and again when Obama got a Nobel Peace Prize for ... what exactly? Did your friend's opinions change when he found out about the other stuff?
*I think his attitude did change, and I agree, I think it can be 'stupidly assigned.' I think he said something about 'indigenous people need to speak out' and I said something like 'they often don't have a voice' or something like that, then someone else said: that's what P (my friend) is saying, so perhaps I was getting it all wrong.*
2) Yes, some people seem to think that paying their taxes is all the contribution they ever need to make to society. Kind of like buying a permit to act like an arsehole, I guess. Most people I know like this are farmers who don't put anything away for tax time, and then get slugged with a bill they can't afford to pay. Then they feel like they're being robbed or persecuted. Invariably, they vote National.
3) I would like to know what your gay mate meant by "needing stereotypes to survive".
*Me too. I didn't get it. He's not a stupid person, he is a thinking person.*
4) Racism and language; here's where things get into the weeds and I do battle with my own in-eloquence. And the worst bit is, I don't even know if I need to, as I'm sure nothing I say is going to be any sort of revelation to you. Basically, my overall point is that context and interpretation are a big deal when it comes to this shit.
*Yes of course*
But anyway ...
Consider the phrase "Fuck you, ya dirty black bitch!" I must've heard/spoken that phrase a thousand times as a teen/twenty-something, but it didn't always mean the same thing every time. Consider that phrase exchanged between close friends as a response to a lewd joke. Now consider it exchanged between those same close friends during a drunken fight, not as an expression of racial intolerance, but because one just wanted to say something nasty to the other. Consider how these scenarios might play differently if the parties involved were not close friends. Now consider all four scenarios where the speaker is fully white vs where the speaker is herself part aboriginal. How do the different permutations change your interpretation of things?
*Of course they do*
I don't know if it's a geographical or economic thing, but I know when I was young, we threw racial slurs and abusive language around without much of a care. To get an idea, imagine a 15yo Alex and six other girls of varying degrees of aboriginality, driving an old shitbox car around a paddock with the phrase "Gin Tin" lovingly painted on the side. I can't say for certain, but I think maybe it's something that's endemic to young people that we just tend to forget about once we grow up a bit? I remember once when I was taken aback by a documentary where a young bloke said he wanted to "get his rape on", and EMS responded that teens in her class quite regularly said stuff like "I'm totally raping this assignment" or "This assignment is totally raping me". The point is, I think maybe we get more sensitive to this stuff as we get older.
*Yes I think this is true too. We can get more sensitive as we get older.*
Agree with all about the soccer stuff.
So, if your friend is saying that she can't see any possible way that a white calling a black a monkey could have racial connotations, I think she's either being disingenuous or idiotic.
*This is the crux. I think she is, maybe both. This was my problem. Her saying she didn't see a problem with it, and seemed to have no idea that it was a racist term. (And yes it was 'ape' not 'monkey' in the Goodes incident.)*
However, if she's saying that she doesn't think this particular case was racially motivated and that Goodes/everybody over-reacted, I might be more accepting of her point of view.
*I would agree with that, but I don't think so. She was saying as an afterthought, that she didn't think it was [generally] racist to call a black person a monkey. She didn't see a problem with it, or rather didn't think there SHOULD be a problem with it.*
Which brings us to the point on political correctness: Is it more important what the speaker intended or what the receiving party interpreted?
*I think it's how it's taken by the receiving party. But I also think if someone says their intent was not to offend, that can also be taken on face value, depending on the situation.*
Let me answer with a question.
Okay, so in my social circles in the 90s, Kevin Bloody Wilson was inescapable. And without a doubt, his most infamous song was Living Next Door To Alan. If you're not familiar with it, please listen to it here and read the (almost correct) lyrics here before continuing.
Whaddya reckon?
*I loved Living Next Door to Alan. It was big down here.*
Personally, I know plenty of folk, black and white, who see that song as an example of an incredibly racist white fella perpetuating a bunch of ugly stereotypes about aboriginal people.
*It is. It does.*
I also know plenty of white folk love the song because it "tells it like it is" about them fuckin' coons. However, (and here's the bit where you either go "Oh, right", or "Alex, your whole point is stupid"), I also know plenty of black folk who love the song because it's about a family of regular old black fellas from the bush who cross paths with a crooked white millionaire (symbolising entrenched inequality) and get the better of him at every turn.
* Ah see this is why I liked that song, for that element. Not because I was laughing at the Aborigines' expense but because we (me and them) were laughing about Alan Bond. And if I remember the song properly, it's told from the point of view of the people living next door to Alan, so you are in the group with them. It's at Alan's expense, no? But I can see how some people would find it really offensive and I'm probably a hypocrite for admitting that I liked it. I was young, which links back to what you said earlier. BUT even when I was young, I had a discomfort with derogatory words, even 'wog' I hated, felt hyperaware when I heard people use it, it wasn't a word our family used. Which also circles back to what you said about background/education/economics.*
So, how racist is it?
*All of the above, I suppose. But this is a nuanced discussion between people who can see not just two sides - that's simplistic - but probably a bunch of sides, situations, contexts, exceptions and so on. I just didn't think my dinner guest had any of this type of perspective in her armoury, if you know what I mean. She was just looking up at the ceiling, and saying she thought it was okay. She couldn't argue WHY it was okay other than sticking by the implication that racial features may look monkey-like, so it was okay to call a spade a spade sort of thing. It just made me look at her differently, but I've always suspected she was a bit, um, simple.*
Thanks for responding even though I didn't actually have a question. Just wanted to share, which might have been a knee-jerk thing to do. I wanted validation that my reaction was 'correct' but you've reminded me that it probably doesn't matter.
Sorry for the lots of comments Alex. I still haven't looked at your links up above...
No, thank you for sharing your knee-jerk not-really-a-question story, and for the lots-of-comments. As you already know, I like my discussions long-winded, in depth, and wildly off-topic.
And yes, Living Next Door To Alan is told from the perspective of the aboriginal family and at Bondy's expense. Racial slurs, and indeed any explicit reference to the race of the family is not made until the very end of the song, and then it's the head of the family smugly and triumphantly proclaiming "He never got used to livin' next door to abos" and "At least we ain't got fuckin' coons live next door to us".
I've heard that when Kev played in front of predominantly indigenous crowds, those lines got the biggest cheers.
It sounds like your friend might have trouble considering perspectives other than her own. If so, I guess the question becomes whether it's worth persisting with her, in hopes of fostering a little growth, or if you just brush off the shit she says and steer the conversation towards blander topics.
The final bits of the KBW song, it was like ' we own this' but also then in the next line 'and we can be racist too' (tongue in cheek, though) which says something quite profound. It's a comment, how virtually everything in life can be relative. And it's funny; when people can laugh at themselves it's endearing. It's not as if it gives those'not in the group' permission to laugh AT them too, it gives us permission to laugh *with them* in a wholehearted way, not a mean-spirited way. Does that make sense? Makes sense to me, but shutting up now.
I still haven't checked the links, need to be in the zone I reckon but as for the final comment above, I'm thinking that it'll just have to be bland topics from now on, not that *I* brought up *any* of the topics discussed last weekend.
I just won't take the bait (if bait it was, probably not, she seemed as surprised by my reaction as I was by her viewpoint) next time.
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